Letters, We Get Mail, CCCLIX



[ Link here = http://www.orange-papers.info/orange-letters359.html#Renee ]

Date: Sun, June 23, 2013 2:22 pm       (answered 26 June 2013)
From: "Renee"
Subject: please allow me on your site

Hi Orange:

I have spent 30+ years of my life in and out of AA, am 57 years old, and could and plan to write a book on my experiences with AA. I feel like I an awakening from a bad dream, that is my life, and a wasted life devoted to idiots and people who do not give two shits about me!!! Yes, I am very angry right now, when I look back at what I could have done with my life. There is so much I wish to share with you. It is bittersweet to see people's stories online, similar to what I've experienced. I've been thru it all, and have witnessed horrific things in AA. I look forward to sharing more with you and reading for validation, your blogs and site information. Thanks, please forward me a password so I can get on.

renee

Hello Renee,

I just found your registration and approved it, so you are in. Welcome. You can use whatever password you entered when you registered.

Sorry to hear about your bad experiences. There seems to be a lot of that. Well, I'm happy that you are out of there now.

Have a good day now.

== Orange

*             [email protected]        *
*         AA and Recovery Cult Debunking      *
*          http://www.Orange-Papers.org/      *
**     "Now I know what it's like to be high on life.
**     It isn't as good, but my driving has improved."
**     == Nina, on "Just Shoot Me", 13 Jan 2006.





[ Link here = http://www.orange-papers.info/orange-letters359.html#Monica_R ]

Date: Mon, June 24, 2013 10:23 am       (answered 28 June 2013)
From: "Monica R."
Subject: Propublica on home page blasts AA and tells Karla Brada Murder Story in Depth!!!

Hi,

http://www.propublica.org/article/how-alcoholics-anonymous-can-be-a-playground-for-violence

Karla Brada murder and critical review of AA is on HOME page of hard news paper by Gabrielle Glaser. PLease post everywhere and comment too if you like.

Thanks
Monica

Hello Monica,

Thank you for that. That is quite a story. And grim. And frightening. Go to A.A. and get murdered by a psychopath that the judge sentenced to A.A. meetings.

I also found that somebody started a thread about this on the forum:
== "Twelve Steps to Danger" by Gabrielle Glaser a VERY in-depth look at the murder of Karla Brada and others - Published June 24, 2013

Have a good day now.

== Orange

*             [email protected]        *
*         AA and Recovery Cult Debunking      *
*          http://www.Orange-Papers.org/      *
**    A flawed idea that AA is built upon:  The idea that a deeply flawed person
**    will cure another deeply flawed person.  A dynamic fraught with peril.
**      == Anonymous





[ Link here = http://www.orange-papers.info/orange-letters359.html#Rick_N ]

Date: Thu, June 27, 2013 7:36 pm       (answered 30 June 2013)
From: "Rick N."
Subject: "The Five C's"

Hello Orange,

I hope things are going well for you. It's been quite some time since I've done much reading in the main sections of your site, but I always try to keep up with the letters. I really enjoyed your recent thoughts on Frank Buchman and "The Five C's". You may be onto something with your thoughts on just how much he actually influenced the Chinese. I really don't know, but it's interesting to consider.

I enjoyed reading about "The Five C's" because it brings back memories of when I first left AA, and also when I first discovered your site. I still remember how I felt when I ran across your observation that chapter seven of the Big Book could be thought of as a recruiting manual. That hit me like a ton of bricks. I remember going back and trying to read it again and seeing just how right you were. It made me angry too because I realized how I had been subjected to elements of those "Five C's" during my early indoctrination into the program. That simple, yet brilliant observation changed the way I looked at all of Bill Wilson's writings from then on. That particular chapter may be one of the more obvious examples of his con-artistry, but once you see it there, it makes it easier to see everywhere else.

I'm not sure how or if it relates to "The Five C's" exactly, but another powerful part of AA's indoctrination process comes to mind as I write this, and that's service work. Steve Hassan did a brilliant job of describing just how important that is in his book, "Combatting Cult Mind Control." He described how The Moonies recognized that he was a pretty sharp guy and immediately put him on a fast track to leadership. He didn't have to stand in the airports selling flowers, but they gave him a van and let him oversee the ones who were. That fed his ego immediately and deepened his sense of obligation to the organization. The concept of service work in AA may not be as deliberately planned, but I believe the psychological effect is the same. I was named treasurer of my first home group while I was still fairly new. The group elders had several reasons to believe that I was a safe bet. That affected me in the same way that Steve Hassan described in his book.

His observations about service work meant as much to me as your observations about that "recruiting manual", so I guess that's why it came to mind.

Anyway, thanks for all of the great work you do here,
Take care.

Rick.

Hello Rick,

Thanks for the letter and the compliments, and I'm glad to hear that you are awake.

About Frank Buchman and Chinese Communist brainwashing: That would make a great Ph.D. research project for some historian who speaks Chinese, and who can sift through old Chinese records and documents. It would be fascinating to track the connections of who was in Dr. Frank Buchman's religious cult in China in the nineteen-teens and -twenties, and who then went on to join the Communists, and took the conversion techniques with him.

Of course, the historical documents may have all been destroyed during the Cultural Revolution. The Communists would not want to advertize the fact that they learned coercive thought reform from a pro-Nazi American Lutheran minister.

I do believe that it has to be more than a coincidence. As one writer on the forum commented,

Yes. Startling that no one has noticed that before. What further supports your point is that Maoist style communism and its brain washing techniques are totally out of sync with the previous 5000 years of Chinese thought and culture which were entirely dominated by Confucianism, Taoism and Mahayana Buddhism. It is as if it appeared out of nowhere, when viewed in this historical context.

Just what did Frank Buchman really do in China?

RE:

That simple, yet brilliant observation changed the way I looked at all of Bill Wilson's writings from then on.

Yes, once the light bulb goes on in your head and you really see, it's all over.

About "service work": Yes, Steve Hassan has some good ideas there. "Service work" is actually a powerful technique for changing people's minds. It doesn't seem like it should be so powerful, but it is. When a newcomer works for the cult, they take pride in their work and feel that they are contributing, so it makes them feel useful and worthwhile. They feel like they have an investment in the cult. Some will actually stay in the cult just because they make the coffee and sweep the floor and set up the chairs, and take them down afterwards. They have a place; they belong.

Many cults send newcomers out recruiting very soon, because it will bind them to the cult. As the new members try to convince the prospects of the truth of the guru's teachings, they will also convince themselves. They will answer doubts in their own minds as they answer the critics' questions. That is called Actionizing, and Self-Sell.

And such service work also has a nice touch of Cognitive Dissonance. Cognitive Dissonance is the desire of people to keep their actions and feelings and beliefs in harmony. Masters of manipulation discovered long ago that the best way to change people's thoughts was to change their actions. Make them do something unusual, anything. As they and their fellow members do it day after day, they will start to believe that what they are doing is perfectly normal. "Don't all reasonable people do this?" That way they subconsciously avoid the feeling that they are doing something stupid or silly.

Then, they can be induced to do or believe something else that is equally silly or stupid. Then, when they have become accustomed to doing that, lead them on to something else, and then to something else, and then something else. Eventually, they will be ready to obediently drink cyanide koolaid.

A related trick is "sharing". We all know how newcomers are expected to start sharing pretty soon, and what they share must be "approved jabber" if they want to get approval from the crowd. They are expected to say that A.A. is helping them and The Program is so wonderful and it really works. Soon, the newcomers will start to believe what they are saying, so that they don't have to feel like a lying fake. They will change their beliefs so that they don't feel cognitive dissonance.

I saw the very same thing happening at Nichiren Shoshu meetings in Colorado back in 1971. At each Sunday meeting or "church service", new members were encouraged to stand up and start listing all of the wonderful things that they had gotten from chanting "Nam-myoho-renge-kyo" to a printed scroll. (Surely, you must have gotten something, right?) And I suppose, if you testify long enough about all of the good things that chanting to the scroll has gotten you, you will start to believe it.

Have a good day now.

== Orange

*             [email protected]        *
*         AA and Recovery Cult Debunking      *
*          http://www.Orange-Papers.org/      *
**     Our remedies oft in ourselves do lie,
**     Which we ascribe to heaven.
**       ==  William Shakespeare, All's Well That Ends Well, (1602-03), 1.1.231





[ Link here = http://www.orange-papers.info/orange-letters359.html#noaauk ]

Date: Thu, June 27, 2013 3:48 am       (answered 7 July 2013)
From: "NoAA UK" <[email protected]>
Subject: British Anti- Steppers

I think its about time the British and other nations became more organised against the cult of steppism than they are at present. I also think there needs to be more cooperation between the US Anti Steppers and those of the UK and other nations....... any person interested in contacting me can do so at [email protected]

Hello, NoAAuk,

Thanks for the activism. Good luck in all of your activities.

And have a good day now.

== Orange

*             [email protected]        *
*         AA and Recovery Cult Debunking      *
*          http://www.Orange-Papers.org/      *
**     "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil
**       is for good men to do nothing."
**         ==  Edmund Burke (1729—1797)





June 01, 2013, Saturday, downtown Portland, the Starlight Parade:

Starlight Parade
Portland Pirates
Portland has quite a pirate contingent. Many ships fly the pirate flag on the Willamette River.

Starlight Parade
A Band
Doesn't it remind you of a Simon and Garfunkle song about "Disney Girls"?

Starlight Parade
A Band

Falun Dafa
Falun Dafa

[More gosling photos below, here.]





[ Link here = http://www.orange-papers.info/orange-letters359.html#Robert_C ]

Date: Mon, July 1, 2013 11:24 am       (answered 7 July 2013)
From: "Robert C."
Subject: Former Abusee at the hands of an AA society as well...

I've read through some of your material and found it very supportive of many of my own thoughts. A truth of the matter for me is that I wish I had read your material prior to going down the rabbit hole, but some things can't be helped. I'm where I am in life and have made the best of those opportunities that have come my way all the while making many mistakes and contrary to the "Big Book" with regrets. My time while being the good little soldier may best be described in just that manner. Some of us humans are naturally pleasers... we so want to be accepted by those for whom we have an affinity with that we are willing to sacrifice "self" in order to gain their acceptance. Whether it's because I'm the third child (Birth order psycho babble) or that part of nature -vs- nurture that has predisposed me to this desire to please is unknown. Nonetheless, it could be viewed simply as a "character defect"... yea, right or its simply part of everyone's nature, some more than others.

I'm enjoying reading your material and have found myself using a great deal of your logic as I proselytize those AA friends that I still possess. I can't imagine the time you've invested in the gathering of the plethora of data that your website has to offer but I can say thank you. And your ability to categorize in a meaningful manner also has me tipping my hat, one of my other short comings is that of staying focused or on track and you've done that well in the few readings that I've been exposed to thus far.

I've been sober... or drink free now, for 3 1/2 years and while I'm happy for that I hope never to come across like those A-holes at the AA meetings that I used to attend that were snobbish and really thought their crap didn't stink because they had a few years under their belts. I personally don't partake because I seriously do believe that I have an allergic reaction in so far as I want to continually pouring it in to keep getting the feel good. Those physical attributes of alcohol or other drugs to produce those feelings are no doubt in my mind true, where I do draw the line though with the AA community is what it takes to "re-map" the brain so that I don't fall back into that same behavior. I've tried unsuccessfully in the past to drink socially and have always failed miserably. This last time that I "swore" off alcohol I was seriously okay with never drinking again.

It doesn't bother me to have others partake from the fruit of the vine and in no way am I jealous of their ability to do so without any cost (that I know of anyways) to themselves or their loved ones. The diabetic cannot partake of sugar laden meals without paying a price and I feel that is very much the way I'm built. I didn't ask to be built this way any more than the diabetic asked for their physical traits...but the truth is they exist. The only thing I have to do is decide what behavior is going to best benefit myself and those with whom I live. To remain drink free is a choice that I make each day to ensure that continued success of my relationships with my wife as well as my children. Suffice it to say though that I simply like "me" better as well. For were I to lose my loved ones in some freak accident I don't think that at this point in my life I would go back to drinking because I didn't have to answer to them anymore. It's just that I really don't want to drink anymore. The cost of the pain associated with getting "sober" again is just way too much for me to ever consider "trying" again. I'm seriously not trying to convince you of anything concerning me... just sharing those things about who I am.

So, keep up the good work... I really do wish that there could be a great "Debate" as to the pulling off the scales of societies eyes about AA and other 12 step programs with your work spearheading the event. I suppose that best that can be done right now is to spread the truths that you've shared with each of the few people that we as individuals know and hope that their eyes will be open. It took many years of the "Big Lie" told over and over again countless times to the masses for our society to accept the AA speak as the only way to go and it will take even more time to undo the damage that these men have "spearheaded" over the years.

Well I'm outta here Agent Orange.... I do support your efforts and will continue to draw from your writings for inspiration and will help to fight against the lies being proposed by those "AA" leaders of my local area.

Best Regards,
Robert (Cob) C.

Hello Robert,

Thank you for the letter, and I'm glad to hear that you are doing well. Congratulations for both your years of sobriety and your new freedom.

I think that most people are just "naturally pleasers". It is in our nature as tribal animals to want to fit in with the group. And that is a fact that cults take advantage of. So please don't feel like there was something wrong with you that made you want to conform and fit in with A.A.

I am also one of those people who cannot drink in moderation. It never worked. It never stayed moderate. But total abstinence has been relatively easy, since I got it through my head that I would never drink alcohol again. My favorite slogan is,

Just don't take that first drink, not ever, no matter what.

That is the answer to all questions about drinking, or "just having one".

(More about that here: How did you get to where you are?)

I don't feel deprived when I don't drink. My attitude is that I have already had my lifetime quota of that kind of pain and suffering.

You already are part of the Great Debate. Your letter is appearing on the Internet, and you can participate in the forum. And you can keep up the flow of letters to other organizations. Please feel free to tell your story to every and any forum and newspaper and publication that will listen. The Steppers routinely plant their stories in those things, and so should you. And don't overlook letters to your Senators and Congressman — both Federal and state — and your city counselors. It's the local politicians who control a lot of the funding for detox and treatment, and they should know what a fraud 12-Step treatment is.

Have a good day now.

== Orange

*             [email protected]        *
*         AA and Recovery Cult Debunking      *
*          http://www.Orange-Papers.org/      *
**   Abstinence isn't self-denial or deprivation.
**   It's just that I've already done my lifetime quota.





[ Link here = http://www.orange-papers.info/orange-letters359.html#Bill_N ]

Date: Wed, July 3, 2013 7:06 pm
From: "Bill N."
Subject: Re: Approval to use the Orange Papers Forum

Hi Terrence,

Bill N. here. I've written to you a few times over the years and have thoroughly enjoyed The Orange Papers. Could you please approve my forum request? Thanks!

Hope you're enjoying the summer. I've taken up birding and bird photography. It's amazing what you can do when you're not plopped in a chair in a musty church hall listening to people parrot the AA cliches. You actually have time to LIVE your life :-)

all the best,
Bill

Hello again, Bill,

Of course I remember you. It's good to hear from you. I'll be glad to approve you for the forum. The only gotcha is that you didn't tell me what user name you registered. I need to know that.

I'm glad to hear that you have taken up bird photograpy. It's a fun hobby. What gets especially interesting is when you form relationships with them, which will happen if you feed them regularly. Rolled oats and sunflower seeds are especially good food. And for the little guys, I get a wild birdseed mix. I get the stuff in bulk, in 40 or 50 pound bags from the local farm feed store. When you feed them day after day, they learn who you are and see you coming.

Have a good day now.
== Orange

*             [email protected]        *
*         AA and Recovery Cult Debunking      *
*          http://www.Orange-Papers.org/      *
**     "Now I know what it's like to be high on life.
**     It isn't as good, but my driving has improved."
**     == Nina, on "Just Shoot Me", 13 Jan 2006.





[ Link here = http://www.orange-papers.info/orange-letters359.html#Peter_F ]

Date: Tue, July 2, 2013 4:44 am       (answered 7 July 2013)
From: "Peter F."
Subject: What's in a Word, and Who is the Addict?

What's in a Word, and Who is the Addict?
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/../../dr-peter-ferentzy/whats-in-a-word-and-who-is-the-addict_b_3530035.html

Peter Ferentzy, PhD
Author of Dealing With Addiction — why the 20th century was wrong
Co-Author: The History of Problem Gambling: Temperance, substance abuse, medicine, and metaphors
http://www.peterferentzy.com

Hello again, Peter,

I'm glad to see that you are still at it.

Oh yes, what's in a word.

One of my big gripes about A.A. is how they have multiple definitions of "an alcoholic" that are totally different — definitions that range from just drinking too much to being a disgusting moral reprobate, and then they mix up the definitions, and use whichever one is to their advantage at the moment.

In addition to the four definitions described at that link:

  1. An alcoholic is someone who habitually drinks far too much alcohol.
  2. An alcoholic is someone who is hyper-sensitive to alcohol, almost allergic to alcohol, perhaps a genetic alcoholic; someone who cannot drink even one drink or his drinking will spin out of control and he will become readdicted to alcohol.
  3. An alcoholic is somebody who cannot quit drinking — he is "powerless" over alcohol.
  4. An alcoholic is an insane sinner who is full of disgusting character defects and moral shortcomings and resentments and barely-contained anger, and is a prime example of self-will run riot and instincts run wild and selfishness and self-seeking and the Seven Deadly Sins, although he doesn't think so... etc., etc., ...

    ...another one just occurred to me:

  5. An alcoholic is a mentally incompetent person who can't think straight and who must have a sponsor doing his thinking for him.

I sure am glad that isn't true.

Have a good day now.

== Orange

*             [email protected]        *
*         AA and Recovery Cult Debunking      *
*          http://www.Orange-Papers.org/      *
**     "We are shut up in schools and college recitation rooms
**      for ten or fifteen years, and come out at last with a
**      bellyful of words and do not know a thing."
**         ==  Ralph Waldo Emerson


[ Link here = http://www.orange-papers.info/orange-letters359.html#Peter_F2 ]

Date: Sat, July 6, 2013 11:54 am       (answered 10 July 2013)
From: "Peter F."
Subject: Who is the Addict? Part Two

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/dr-peter-ferentzy/who-is-the-addict-part-2_b_3546785.html

Peter Ferentzy, PhD
Author of Dealing With Addiction — why the 20th century was wrong
Co-Author: The History of Problem Gambling: Temperance, substance abuse, medicine, and metaphors
http://www.peterferentzy.com

Oh yes, That is quite good Peter. That just nails it.

I especially related to this line:

Unless you kept it up to the point where it destroyed your world along with your pocket book and took away almost all of your self-respect, then in one sense you and I are not from the same planet.

Yes, there is just something about the experience of seeing your own death approaching, and then deciding to live, and pulling yourself up out of your own grave by an act of sheer will power and determination, that changes you in some way.

Have a good day now.

== Orange

*             [email protected]        *
*         AA and Recovery Cult Debunking      *
*          http://www.Orange-Papers.org/      *
**     What lies behind us, and what lies before us,
**     Are tiny matters,
**     Compared to what lies within us.
**       ==  Ralph Waldo Emerson





[ Link here = http://www.orange-papers.info/orange-letters359.html#John ]

Date: Tue, July 2, 2013 11:33 am       (answered 8 July 2013)
From: John
Subject: Effectiveness of the 12 step program

Hello Mr. or Ms. Orange,

I am not debating the facts about the effectiveness of the 12 step program nor the numbers in totals (unqualified) of the spontaneous remissions rate in your article http://www.orange-papers.info/orange-effectiveness.html.

However, recent numbers show that the recovery rate is greater for those who receive treatment than those who do not. And the numbers show that multiple simultaneous approaches for treatment work better together than only one type of treatment alone. Your article does not address these facts and perhaps should. You will find these numbers in publications from http://www.drugabuse.gov/related-topics/treatment-research.

I would point out in particularly "Principles of Drug Addiction Treatment: A Research-Based Guide (Third Edition)". I do not dispute that, mostly because of their own desire to quit, the addict seeks treatment. However, it is an illness and treatment has been proven effective the same as it is with cancer, diabetes and other diseases. In view of the 50 percent spontaneous remissions, one might consider of that within that 50 percent, a high majority of them were in treatment of some type (12 step or not). The challenges for those who are addicted is difficult because so many who do need treatment and may want to quit do not have treatment resources available to them. Another way of viewing the 50 percent who do enter remissions, for those who decide they want to quit, the odds are better for those who seek and receive treatment. The facts support this view.

Kind regards,
john

Hello John,

Thank you for the letter.

Alas, the link that you sent didn't go to any specific report that showed that treatment works.

And what I really did not see anywhere was the words Randomized Longitudinal Controlled Studies, or "Control Group", which would allow figuring out how much a "treatment" works. Just because a Stepper gets a propaganda paper published by a government agency does not prove that treatment suddenly started working. (You do know that the A.A. promoters are constantly cranking out a stream of propaganda for that purpose, don't you? Look here.)

Now, about your comments:

First off, my numbers for spontaneous remission from alcohol abuse are not "unqualified". (That is a typical Stepper trick: just claim that numbers that they don't like are invalid, or "unqualified", or "not substantiated", or "not supported by medical tests".) I research carefully, and those number are very much supported by evidence. Start with Dr. Sheldon Zimberg's analysis of the spontaneous remission rate, here. He drew upon numerous other studies of the spontaneous remission rate that were done by other doctors.

About the so-called "studies" that show that treatment works, The people doing those "studies" and collecting the numbers have a huge vested interest — a conflict of interest — because they are selling the treatment (and for high prices, too). They never do valid Randomized Longitudinal Controlled Studies to fairly prove what the real success rate of the treatment method actually is. They just collect anecdotal evidence in an unsupervised manner, and infer statistical relationships between unrelated things, and try to claim that they have evidence that treatment works.

In my case, I got "treatment", and then never drank again. My "treatment program" consisted of going to an outpatient program at the Portland Alternative Addiction Center (PAAC) where I got acupuncture and "group therapy" where a Stepper slogan-slinger parotted slogans about, "I am teachable today. I don't know if I will relapse tomorrow. Your addiction wants to kill you. You need a Higher Power in your recovery program. Go to at least three meetings a week and get a sponsor." And then he went home and snorted cocaine and then looked at child pornography pictures on his computer and then raped his step-children. They busted him for it and shipped him off to the state penitentiary.

Nevertheless, the state authorities got a bill from PAAC for the "treatment" that we got, and the "treatment provider" counted me as one of their success stories in their reports to the state. They forgot to mention the fact that I actually quit drinking two weeks before the treatment program started.

— Which brings up the obvious issue that people who seek treatment are the people who have decided to quit drinking or drugging, like you mentioned. They are more highly motivated to quit. They want to quit. That is why it appears that treatment works. They decide to quit drinking and save their own lives, so they quit drinking and go check out A.A. meetings and 12-Step-based treatment programs, and then the Steppers claim the credit for the sobriety.

And the logic is terrible: Post Hoc, Ergo Propter Hoc — "It happened after something, so it was caused by that something." That's as bad as saying that Joe Blow ate vanilla ice cream and then quit drinking, so vanilla ice cream cures alcoholism. Or, Joe Blow joined an old cult religion from the nineteen-thirties and then quit drinking, so cult religion is the cure for alcoholism.

Again, they — the treatment centers, or the A.A.-promoters, or the U.S. Government, like the www.drugabuse.gov web site — need to do a valid Randomized Longitudinal Controlled Study to see what effect the treatment method really has. Treatment providers NEVER do that because that would reveal that the treatment program does not work.

What do you mean by "It is an illness"? What is an illness? Food poisoning is an illness, and so is alcohol poisoning. However, it does not usually require treatment. Just stop consuming the poison and most cases cure themselves.

On the other hand, if you mean that compulsive excessive drinking of alcohol is a mental illness, then yes, some kind of treatment might help. Obviously, the 12-Step treatment that is really just the practices of Dr. Frank Buchman's cult religion in the nineteen-thirties is totally inappropriate for treatment of mental illnesses. That is so barbaric and medieval that it is right down there with the snake pit and electro-shock therapy.

Have a good day now.

== Orange

*             [email protected]        *
*         AA and Recovery Cult Debunking      *
*          http://www.Orange-Papers.org/      *
**     He who attempts to make others believe in means which he himself
**     despises, is a puffer; he who makes use of more means that he
**     knows to be necessary, is a quack; and he who ascribes to those
**     means a greater efficacy than his own experience warrants, is an imposter.
**         ==  John Caspar Lavater (1741—1801), Swiss theologian


P.S.: 2013.07.25:

I went to the library and put in an inter-library loan request for "Principles of Drug Addiction Treatment: A Research-Based Guide (Second Edition)", and I finally received it.

That booklet provides no evidence that 12-Step treatment actually works. There is only half a page of unsubstantiated statements about 12-Step treatment, and here they are:

12-Step Facilitation Therapy

(Alcohol, Stimulants, Opiates)

Twelve-step facilitation therapy is an active engagement strategy designed to increase the likelihood of a substance abuser becoming affiliated with and actively involved in 12-step self-help groups and, thus, promote abstinence.
Three key aspects predominate: acceptance, which includes the realization that drug addiction is a chronic, progressive disease over which one has no control, that life has become unmanageable because of drugs, that willpower alone is insufficient to overcome the problem, and that abstinence is the only alternative; surrender, which involves giving oneself to a higher power, accepting the fellowship and support structure of other recovering addicted individuals, and following the recovery activities laid out by the 12-step program; and active involvement in 12-step meetings and related activities. While the efficacy of 12-step programs (and 12-step facilitation) in treating alcohol dependence has been established, the research on other abused is more preliminary but promising for helping drug abusers sustain recovery.
NIDA has recognized the need for more research in this area and is currently funding a community-based study to examine the impact of 12-step facilitation therapy for methamphetamine and cocaine abusers.

Further Reading:

Carroll, K.M.; Nich, C.; Ball, S.A.; McCance, E.; Frankforter, T.L.; and Rounsaville, B.J. One-year follow-up of disulfiram and psychotherapy for cocaine-alcohol users: Sustained effects of treatment. Addiction 95(9):1335-1349, 2000.

Donovan, D.M., and Wells E.A. "Tweaking 12-Step": The potential role of 12-Step self-help group involvement in methamphetamine recovery. Addiction 102(Suppl. 1):121-129, 2007.

Project MATCH Research Group. Matching Alcoholism treatments to client heterogeneity: Project MATCH posttreatment drinking outcomes. Journal of Studies on Alcohol 58(1)7-29, 1997.
— "Principles of Drug Addiction Treatment: A Research-Based Guide (Second Edition)", page 54.
National Institute on Drug Abuse, National Institutes of Health, U.S. Department of Health and Human Services
NIH Publication No. 09-4180

The first sentence is a lie:

Twelve-step facilitation therapy is an active engagement strategy designed to increase the likelihood of a substance abuser becoming affiliated with and actively involved in 12-step self-help groups and, thus, promote abstinence.

So-called "Twelve-step facilitation" is merely cult religion recruiting. The goal is to get more people to join Alcoholics Anonymous. A.A. was not "designed" to help alcoholics or addicts. Dr. Frank Buchman designed his Oxford Group cult religion to support him in the luxurious lifestyles of the rich and famous, and it did that very well. Bill Wilson, who was a member of Frank Buchman's cult, decided that he wanted a lifestyle of luxury and leisure too. To get A.A., Bill Wilson merely stole and renamed a branch of Dr. Frank Buchman's cult religion. Then he never worked a straight job again either, and he died a millionaire too.

The second sentence contains multiple lies, deceptions, and falsehoods:

Three key aspects predominate: acceptance, which includes the realization that drug addiction is a chronic, progressive disease over which one has no control, that life has become unmanageable because of drugs, that willpower alone is insufficient to overcome the problem, and that abstinence is the only alternative; surrender, which involves giving oneself to a higher power, accepting the fellowship and support structure of other recovering addicted individuals, and following the recovery activities laid out by the 12-step program; and active involvement in 12-step meetings and related activities.

That sentence teaches that people should believe in the crazy heretical tenets of Dr. Frank Buchman's religion, where he declared that you have been defeated by sin, and are powerless over it, and only surrender to God (really, surrender to Frank's cult) will save you. And then, of course, you have to go to lots and lots of their cult meetings.

Bill Wilson just reworded it by saying that you are powerless over alcohol, your life is unmanageable, and only "Higher Power" can restore you to sanity, so you have to go to lots and lots of A.A. meetings or else you will die.

The third sentence is another lie. It is a blatant, bare-faced lie, not a slight error or misinterpretation of the facts:

While the efficacy of 12-step programs (and 12-step facilitation) in treating alcohol dependence has been established, the research on other abused is more preliminary but promising for helping drug abusers sustain recovery.

The efficacy of 12-Step treatment has never been established. Quite the opposite. 12-Step treatment is a proven failure. Every time A.A. was put to the test in a valid clinical test or controlled study, A.A. failed to sober up the alcoholics, and just caused a lot of bad side effects, like raising the rates of binge drinking and death. But the criminals who are selling expensive 12-step quackery will never tell you that.

A recent review by the Cochrane Library, a health-care research group, of studies on alcohol treatment conducted between 1966 and 2005 states its results plainly: "No experimental studies unequivocally demonstrated the effectiveness of AA or TSF [12-step facilitation] approaches for reducing alcohol dependence or problems."
We're addicted to rehab. It doesn't even work., By Bankole A. Johnson, Sunday, August 8, 2010
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/08/06/AR2010080602660.html

Dr. and Prof. Bankole A. Johnson currently serves as Alumni Professor and Chairman of the Department of Psychiatry and Neurobehavioral Sciences at the University of Virginia. Look here.

Then the unnamed author listed three items of "further reading", none of which provided any evidence that 12-Step treatment actually works to make people quit drinking or drugging. The first item talks about using disulphiram to treat alcohol abuse. That is using medications, something that A.A. is very opposed to.

The second item talks about "The potential role of 12-Step self-help group involvement in methamphetamine recovery." Excuse me, but somebody's goofy idea that maybe the 12-Step cult might make speed freaks consume less methamphetamine is not evidence that 12-Step treatment works to cure alcohol abuse or anything else.

The third item again pushes the failed Project MATCH as if it had accomplished something good, which it did not. I already wrote about Project MATCH here: http://www.orange-papers.info/orange-letters359.html#MATCH .

Have a good day now.
== Orange





June 01, 2013, Saturday, downtown Portland, Starlight Parade:

Starlight Parade

Starlight Parade

Starlight Parade
PSU, the local university

Starlight Parade
PSU, the local university

[The story of the goslings continues here.]





[ Link here = http://www.orange-papers.info/orange-letters359.html#Will_C ]

Date: Sun, June 30, 2013 1:18 am       (answered 8 July 2013)
From: "Will C."
Subject: [Anti — 12 step programs] look what i found in my in box over in linkedin...

Will C. posted in Anti — 12 step programs

look what i found in my in box over in linkedin for challenging some AAers a gel Richards

RE: Let people choose their own roads, when people are given the opportunity and support to let go of crisis and heart break drinking, they...
Glenn Richardson
Glenn Richardson — Trainer, Consultant (LCDC, CCS, CPS, PRSS, MISA — Illinois) at Glenn Richardson, Consulting

To: Will C.

Date: June 29, 2013

Alcoholics Anonymous and treatment work just as well, even better in some cases as treatment for other chronic diseases
( http://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/science-addiction
-
http://www.commed.uchc.edu/match/pubs/ )

— AA either dosen't work for people who don't work it (neither do diets — home schooling — or a whole lot of other things) or it works too well as soon as the fellowship works to get whatever the person came in to get off their back off their back (condition sobriety) the individual leave the program and loudly proclaims that "AA doesn't work — Also there many diseases tha neither medicine or self help haven't been able to touch the more virulent forms of — I stand by my statement that made the rule that one is not enough not AA — I'm very sad that AA did not work in your particular case and I hope you found your own pathway to recovery — however if it inclused continued use, even in smaller amounts I'm even more deeply saddened as the pronosis is not good — however if you can do so without negative consequences you do not have addictive disease and I'm happy for you — my "lecture" was not on 12 Step recovery it was on knowledge about the neurophysiology of addictive disease — and if my providing you with a Addiction Medicine definition of addictive disease "use of a mind altering chemical (in this case alcohol) in a manner characterized by compulsion, loss of control (defined as an inability to accurately predict when they are going to stop drinking after having one drink — hence "one is too many — and this part of the criteria pretty much rules out your moderate drinker), and continued use in spite of adverse consequences." and research as to where to find out more about it is conscrued on your part to be a lecture about AA — All I can guess is that you really have a problem with AA and this resentment will cause you much more discomfort than it ever causes Alcoholics Anonymous — Here IS a "lecture" Please donnot let you resentment push you to dissuade those for whom it will work from giving it a try —

Thank You

On 06/29/13 12:36 AM, Will C. wrote:
--------------------
I spent 10 years in the 12 step program and went through just as many rehabs, I don't need a lecture on the dogma of the 12 steps which saves what 5% of the people who walk through the doors. I don't enter discussions I have no experience in.

On 06/27/13 5:43 PM, Glenn Richardson wrote:
--------------------
"Sorry Will — It was Addictive Disease itself who made the rule. "The big book thumpers don't like moderate drinkers defying their rule that one drink is too many and a thousand never enough" there is no such thing as a moderate drinker with addictive disease and if they are indeed moderate drinkers what are they doing going to AA? The people for whom the fellowship of AA exist are addicted to alcohol and meet the criteria "use of a mind altering chemical (in this case alcohol) in a manner characterized by compulsion, loss of control (defined as an inability to accurately predict when they are going to stop drinking after having one drink — hence "one is too many — ant this part of the criteria pretty much rules out your moderate drinker), and continued use in spite of adverse consequences. Please go to the NIDA, SAMHSA and other legitimate websites and learn a little about the disease before weighing on this discussion. Unless you are like Doc and don't mind being see as the idiot savant that he is. Thank You "

Drugs, Brains, and Behavior: The Science of Addiction | National Institute on Drug Abuse
Science of Addiction is in the public domain and may be reproduced without permission from NIDA. Citation of the source is appreciated.

Reply to this email to comment on this post.

http://www.facebook.com/n/?groups%2Funinstaalled%2Fpermalink%2F616316821726180%2F&mid=839e703G25f2680eGce87a52G96&bcode=1.1372580310.AblWGBG8yfciQjOO&n_m=orange%40orange-papers.info

Hello Will,

Thank you for the message. That is interesting. All of a sudden, I've gotten several references to Steppers using quotes from www.drugabuse.gov to "prove" that A.A. works. Some Steppers planted some fraudulent, deceptive essays there, and then somebody else must have put the links on the unofficial A.A. "talking points" list. Now they will all parrot the same misinformation and fraud and convince themselves that a cult religion from the nineteen-thirties really works great as a cure for what they call a "disease".

In the case of the second link listed at the top of this letter, it goes to a list of publications about Project MATCH. That is total fraud. Project MATCH was a government fiasco that wasted $27 million dollars paying alcoholics to come to meetings and listen to bastardized versions of 12-Step religion, or Cognitive Behavioral Therapy, or something called "motivational therapy". There was no control group, so there is no way to determine whether any treatment actually sobered up any alcoholics. Nevertheless, the bozos who ran the "test" crowed that "treatment works!", without being able to say how much it works. Fraud. Deception. Incompetence. A waste of $27 million.

There is much more about Project MATCH here.

At the top, Glenn Richardson wrote:

AA either dosen't work for people who don't work it (neither do diets — home schooling — or a whole lot of other things) or it works too well as soon as the fellowship works to get whatever the person came in to get off their back off their back (condition sobriety) the individual leave the program and loudly proclaims that "AA doesn't work

That is gibberish and nonsense. He began by parrotting yet another old A.A. slogan about "it doesn't work if you don't work it", which is really a demand that you quit drinking and then give the credit for your sobriety to the A.A. program, while pretending that doing the practices of an old cult religion is really helpful.

After that, it's almost incomprehensible nonsense: "It works too well." Oh really? I never heard of A.A. or 12-Step treatment programs having that problem before.

Later on, he parrots,

a Addiction Medicine definition of addictive disease "use of a mind altering chemical (in this case alcohol) in a manner characterized by compulsion, loss of control (defined as an inability to accurately predict when they are going to stop drinking after having one drink — hence "one is too many — and this part of the criteria pretty much rules out your moderate drinker), and continued use in spite of adverse consequences."

That has been proven to be untrue. It is not the "Addiction Medicine definition", it's the ASAM definition. That is the definition that Steppers made up to support their crazy religious dogma that says that we are powerless over alcohol, and only "Higher Power" can save us. Look here.

Then Glenn finished with a classic Stepper line that says that "a resentment" makes us tell the truth about A.A.:

Please donnot let you resentment push you to dissuade those for whom it will work from giving it a try

What people for whom "it will work"? Work to do what? Why should anybody "give it a try"? What will doing the practices of an old fascist cult religion really accomplish?

Certainly not make people quit drinking. What A.A. and 12-Step treatment really do is increase the death rate in alcoholics, and increase the binge drinking rate, and increase the divorce rate, and increase the suicide rate... and on and on.

Oh well, have a good day now.

== Orange

*             [email protected]        *
*         AA and Recovery Cult Debunking      *
*          http://www.Orange-Papers.org/      *
**    Heroes have gone out, quacks have come in; the reign of quacks
**    has not ended with the nineteenth century. The sceptre is held
**    with a firmer grasp; the empire has a wider boundary. We are
**    all the slaves of quackery in one shape or another. One portion
**    of our being is always playing the successful quack to the other.
**       ==  Thomas Carlyle (1795—1881), English essayist,
**             historian, biographer, and philosopher





[ Link here = http://www.orange-papers.info/orange-letters359.html#Tom_H ]

Date: Sun, July 7, 2013 1:47 pm       (answered 10 July 2013)
From: "Tom H."
Subject: Interesting Question

If people only get sober when they are sick and tired of being sick and tired, and we have a natural remission rate of 5%, then NONE of the groups or programs for alcoholism work at all. If there were a psychologist or any other kind of health professional that had a cure rate of even 10% they would have a line a mile long of people signing up. All of the groups and addiction guru's try to boast and downright lie of their "success rates" to make money. Maybe someday there will be a medication that can cure this malady, but as long as the public doesn't want to invest money into something that people do to themselves by "choice" then the body count will continue. I hate AA with a passion, but they do have a slogan that I agree with and it's: " You're not done until you're done."

Hello again, Tom,

Right on. I also maintain that A.A. and 12-Step treatment don't work at all. They simply steal the credit from the few people who were going to quit their bad habits and addictions anyway. They steal the credit from the people who are ready, eager, and willing to improve their lives.

And you are quite right about the results of a cure rate of 10%. In fact, the more I think about it, I don't think that TSF ("12-Step facilitation", or 12-Step treatment) even has a 5% success rate.

I am reminded of the mathematical analysis of A.A. membership growth in the file The_Mathematics_of_Alcoholics_Anonymous_-_Part_1.pdf — Analysis of the mathematics of Alcoholics Anonymous, using A.A.'s own published documents. There, the author established that if A.A. had even a 5% retention rate, that it would be growing a lot. Indeed, a 5% per year growth rate will cause the organization to double in size every 12 1/2 years. Obviously, that is not happening. A.A. has not grown since the nineteen-nineties, and it is now shrinking.

Likewise, if A.A. or 12-Step treatment centers had even a 5% cure rate, we should have a huge population of happy recovered clean and sober Steppers. But we don't. The real numbers are so bad that A.A. won't publish them.

Oh well, have a good day anyway.

== Orange

*             [email protected]        *
*         AA and Recovery Cult Debunking      *
*          http://www.Orange-Papers.org/      *
**     The test, surely, of a creed is not the ability of those who accept it
**     to announce their faith; its test is its ability to change their behavior
**     in the ordinary round of daily life. Judged by that test, I know no
**     religion that has a moral claim upon the allegiance of men.
**       ==  Harold J. Laski, in I Believe (1939), ed. Clifton Fadiman





[ Link here = http://www.orange-papers.info/orange-letters359.html#Richard_B ]

Date: Mon, July 8, 2013 1:37 pm       (answered 10 July 2013)
From: "Richard B."
Subject: As a writer, Bill Wilson approached the unknowable and rendered it not worth knowing. Agreed?

Hello again! Richard B. here.

About William James and Bill Wilson ...

Have you ever wondered just how well Wilson really knew the former's "Varieties of Religious Experience," which he claimed to have read before, during, or after — the record doesn't seem to be clear — his epoch-making stay at Towns Hospital?

VRE is a substantial piece of writing, coming to some 477 pages in the 1987 Library of America edition. And not only that, its contents were addressed to an academic audience that presumably had no problems with occasional untranslated passages in Latin and German.

The answer, I'd say, is hardly at all. We can be sure that Wilson knew that it was a drop-dead classy name to drop, conferring immediate intellectual prestige on the party who mentions it. Or so he hoped, the poor dear.

Strange, that when you combine (1) Wilson's insecurities about social status with (2) the kind of intellectual dishonesty that overlaps with probable brain damage — i.e., confabulation — what you come up with is ... the Big Book.

Let's allow WJ to speak for himself. The following extracts are from the pair of William James volumes in the Library of America series:

" ... the Binnenleben [buried life] is the unuttered inner atmosphere in which [the patient's] consciousness dwells alone with the secrets of his prison-house. This inner personal tone is what we can't communicate or describe articulately to others; but the wraith and ghost of it, so to speak, are often what our friends and intimates feel as our most characteristic quality.

"In the unhealthy-minded, apart from all sorts of old regrets, ambitions checked by shames and aspirations obstructed by timidities, it consists mainly of bodily discomforts not distinctly localized by the sufferer, but breeding a general self-mistrust and sense that things are not as they should be with him. Half the thirst for alcohol that exists in the world exists simply because alcohol acts as a temporary anaesthetic and effacer to all these morbid feelings that never ought to be in a human being at all. In the healthy-minded, on the contrary, there are no fears or shames to discover; and the sensations that pour in from the organism only help to swell the general vital sense of security for anything that may turn up."
— from "The Gospel of Relaxation," in "Talks to Students."

" ... The sway of alcohol over mankind is unquestionably due to its power to stimulate the mystical faculties of human nature, usually crushed to earth by the cold facts and dry criticisms of the sober hour. Sobriety diminishes, discriminates, and says no; drunkenness expands, unites, and says yes. It is in fact the great exciter of the Yes function in man. It brings its votary from the chill periphery of things to the radiant core. It makes him for the moment one with truth. To the poor and the unlettered it stands in the place of symphony concerts and of literature; and it is part of the deeper mystery and tragedy of life that whiffs and gleams of something that we immediately recognize as excellent should be vouchsafed to so many of us only in the fleeting earlier phases of what in its totality is so degrading a poisoning."
— from "Mysticism," in "Varieties of Religious Experience."

And: "Why William James Matters," from his best biographer, Robert Richardson:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2010/08/25/william-james-centennial-celebration.html

Class dismissed!

Best,

Richard B.

P.S. If you'd like to know in detail how alcoholism affected the James family, I suggest you read Richardson's marvelous page-turner. Dry as dust it is not.

Hello Richard,

Thanks for the quotes and links. Very interesting. I'll have to check out that book.

The story that I got was that either Ebby Thacher or Rowland Hazard brought a copy of William James' Varieties of Religious Experience to Bill Wilson while he was detoxing in Charlie Towns' hospital — and getting dosed out of his mind with belladonna, henbane, and morphine. That would have been some time between Dec. 13 and 16, 1934. Apparently, Wilson had never seen the book before, and he just read through it quickly, while stoned out of his gourd and hallucinating and seeing God. Later, Wilson bragged that he understood the whole book. One of his biographies claims that the book was tough going, but Bill Wilson's sharp legal mind absorbed all of the key ideas in two days.

Wilson goofed and could not remember that the famous line about

'"The only radical remedy I know for dipsomania is religiomania," is a saying I have heard quoted from some medical man.'
was actually in VRE (page 263, footnote 1), and it did not come from Carl Jung at all, like Bill Wilson often claimed. Heaven only knows how much Wilson really read or absorbed or remembered from that book.

Have a good day now.

== Orange

*             [email protected]        *
*         AA and Recovery Cult Debunking      *
*          http://www.Orange-Papers.org/      *
**     'If merely "feeling good" could decide, drunkenness
**     would be the supremely valid human experience.'
**       ==  William James (1842—1910), U.S. psychologist,
**        philosopher, in "The Varieties Of Religious
**        Experience", lecture 1, "Religion and Neurology" (1902)





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